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March 20th, 2008 
QuadsZilla Here are the email correspondents with a a recent subscriber to seo black hat’s private black hat seo forum.
I swear, you just can’t make this shit up:
from lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>
to –seoblackhat.com,
date Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 12:33 PM
subject Information Please?QuadsZilla,
Our paypal & ebay accounts were recently hacked and I have found this transaction along with alot more. I am trying to get all these fixed. I don’t know what the idiot who hacked us bought from you, it seems like it is some sort of advertisment as there is a subcription created also.
Could you let me know what was purchased?
I apologise for all this, but I am a small business and I need to regather as much as possible…I hope you understand and maybe shed some light on who hacked us?
Thank you,
Sean O Connor..
Notice he said “along with alot more” transactions. This haxor has used their ID to defraud many other merchants.
SEO Black Hat to lee
from SEO Black Hat
to lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>,
date Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 12:39 PMwhat is the paypal email address?
-q
he responded:
lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>
to QuadsZilla
date Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 1:16 PMHi,
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. The paypal address that was used was sales@thearmycenter.com, but we have change that login now. I have someone trying to fix it for me.
Can you tell me what they bought from you?Thanks again,
Sean.
I did a quick lookup and wrote:
From: SEO Black Hat
to lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>,
date Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 2:58 PMviljimidrinker@yahoo.ie using sales@thearmycenter’s paypal address
from ip
89.166.35.35
purchased a monthly subscription to seoblackhat’s private SEO forum.
so he writes back:
from lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>,
to SEO Black Hat
date Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 3:37 PMHello,
Thank you! So they came from the same computer? I had a feeling about that.
That yahoo address is from the guy that does alot of our software work as I dont know much in that area.
Thanks a million for your help, atleast I now have a good idea what happened.
Sean.
Me – no response. I thought he was basically saying “OK, I know it’s totally our fault.”
. . . but apparently not. Today he wrote:
to SEO Black Hat
date Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 8:06 AMHi,
Can’t you just give me back my money? I have no interest to be apart of your forum.
I appreciate you have a business to operate too, but I havent and don’t plan on using this service.I would just like my money returned.
Thank you!
I did an IP lookup on his email and find:
X-Originating-IP: [89.166.35.35]
From: SEO Black Hat
to lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>,
date Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:45 AM
subject Re: Information Please?Sean
You just sent me that email from 89.166.35.35.
The subscription was purchased from 89.166.35.35
Send me a copy of the police report where you state that the programmer (and give his name / address etc) fraudulantly used your paypal account and I will be refund your money.
I will post the police report on my blog for everyone to see.
Crimes like this should be reported to help keep criminals like this from operating. If the programmer did this to you, he probably did it to others too.
Together, we can help stop things like this from happening to others.
-q
Here it gets even more amazing:
from lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>
to SEO Black Hat
date Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:31 AMHello,
Yes this is my computer.
Most of the work is done from here. The programmer is a member of my in-laws and such does alot of our work form here.
There will be no police report as I will sort this internally as most family matters should be.
I only want my money back from you, I don’t require member ship to your forum.
So, if you are sincere about been helpful and working together you will appreciate my viewpoint also.
Hopefully this can be sorted asap..
Thank you
He has a h4xor In-Law!
from SEO Black Hat
to lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>,
date Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:01 PMIf there is no police report, nothing was stolen.
Either you were the victim of Identity theft or you were not.
Which is it?
If you were, I will help.
If you were not, and it’s a family affair, why is it my problem and why should I foot the bill?
-q
His Response:
from lee cunningham <enterlee@hotmail.com>
to SEO Black Hat
date Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:09 PMListen,
A family affair is for families not police! Why would I add to my grief by causing more trouble?
Explain foot the bill? You have money belonging to me and I have not used your service!!You have got my money and I have got nothing in return, do you think this is fair?
I just wanted it sort, but we can wait for paypal.
Well, instead of waiting for paypal, I’m gonna open it up to you: my readers.
What do you think is “fair”?
Posted in 
I would say that the h4xor-in-law should pay the money back… besides it sounds a bit dodgy, the email coming from “lee cunningham ” but signed Sean O Connor but thats just me
If it’s a ‘family matter’ then mister h4xor will give the guy back his money and you quad can keep what you already have and cancel his subscription. That’s my fair
Don’t give them their money back unless you get a police report. Without a police report, it obviously isn’t a serious matter and the guy should get his money back from his in-law, not you.
I’d just check your apache logs, and see if he used the forum after his initial complaint. If not give him the money back. If he used it, then tell him to fuck off.
It’s not true he’s got nothing in return: he has one month subscription to the forum. If he used it, he could even learn something so that his identity won’t be stolen again in the future
Unless he provides you with some proof he was hacked, you should bot be obliged to pay the dude anything.
Of course, it’s would be only fair to give the money back if the guy was hacked, but the guy may just read all the information he needed on the forum, and now wants the money back.
Reading apache logs will give no information, for two reason:
First, the guy may have been a little bit smart, and used a proxy.
And second, the haxor may have read the forum from the same IP he haxed it, while the victim didn’t use the forum whatsoever.
So you should ask for any sort of proof. I can’t think of any other way of proof but a police report, but I can also understand why the man does not want all the beurocracy.
Final word: provide a good proof – get your money back. Not willing to provide anything – that’s your problem, suck it up and loose your money.
Give the cat his money back. Why even bother with the headache.. esp if he “found out” about the abuse one or two months after signup happened. Call that 200 a loss and be out…
He might be a some kind of forum scrapper.
He got access in forums,
Scrapped all of your Private Forum Content,
Now asking his money.
Just stop replying to him.. and keep posting some nice seo blackhat tips to your blog readers too
Its the time to add one more line in terms & conditions page…
Regardless of the reason, he asked for a refund, so give it to him. Besides, if you don’t, unfortunately PayPal will.
if he’s not willing to handle this ‘family affair’ like a man and seek his money from the person who stole it, he sucks.
4. We may decide at any time that you suck and we don’t want you as a member any more. If this happens, your account will be suspended and you will no longer have access to anything here. Plus, you forfeit all subscription payments made. So don’t suck.
You could hold your ground, and provide PayPal the logs showing his emails and the registration share an IP address. I’ve dealt with PayPal in similar situations. You’ll have to fill out some forms, possibly have a phone conversation with a rep, and then wait and see what happens. Based on my experiences, I’d lay even odds on the outcome.
Assuming the logs don’t show a significant amount of suspicious activity, the time involved may not be worth it. Canceling the guys account could save you some hassle.
Issue him an invoice for a psychotherapeutic session of emails.
Stop being a dick to the guy and give him back his money. It isn’t worth dealing w/ idiots like this. Just take him as his word and be done w/ it.
Wow,
Legally you are not required to give him his money back (in my opinion, I am not a lawyer). For what it is worth, the guy already made a fool of himself and I would probably just give him his money back so he doesn’t go spam a bunch of crap. However, if you really want to make a point out of this guy, don’t give him his money back. He can hardly type correctly, and I am not saying I have perfect grammar of typing, but his is just horrible. If it was my company I would give him his money back and then make a domain with his name and post the entire story (and his company). That’d be great!
Cheers,
Chris
I personally think this guy is full of shit. I think after he bought the membership he found all the information in your forums to be way over his head. Now he is fishing for a refund by trying to pin the blame on a hacker.
Quad, what do your logs show for this users activity?
If he did indeed never use your service as stated I would give him a refund, but if he has logged into his account more than once I would not give him a refund.
I have laughed for 2 days at the title of this post.
I think the guy is lying. You are in business to make money. I think its commendable that you would be willing to give the money back under any circumstance. I say, no crime, no refund.
Now, just for fun, sign his email address up at a bunch of beastiality websites.
Invite him to participate in the forums, show him the value of the sub, toss in 1-2 months free access & personally email him daily with tips/jokes/fwd’s. This is an opportunity for the in-laws to bond thru a shared interest — won’t you help save this troubled family?
Unless it was digital goods or something, paypal will most likely side with the payer. I’ve been in paypal disputes before and other than in a few specific situations/digital goods etc, you have lost even before they start the paypal dispute. Just refund.
Bullshit.
Maybe he spidered the forums? Check the apache logs for how much activity from that IP.
I would not give him anything back for all you know (if you have not already checked) he has probably stolen every idea on the blog already.
Who knows i would personally not refund anything unless its a police matter.
Its the guys fault for giving access to “his so-called family hax0r”
The h4xor-in-law bought the subscription to your forum, right? So let’s take a second and think about who’s got to pay for it… Hmmm… Wait, I think I got it… Umm…
I wouldn’t make it depend on if he used the forum or not, I would make Cunningham to pay anyway… Its his problem to get the money back from his in-law.
paypal can deal with this matter..
Sounds like some douche wanted the Google review guidelines you posted a lot, but is a wannabe who can’t afford the membership. That said, if he files with paypal, they will indeed likely believe him until you prove otherwise.
You have already spent this month’s subscription rate responding to this matter, and if you don’t give the guy his money back, you will spend several more hours handling the matter.
It is not an issue of fairness – it is an issue of the cost of your time versus the cost of refund.
I’m not buying any of this dudes story…once he files a police report then refund him, otherwise he ‘family issues’ is for him to sort out.
You’re quite right – his in-law should foot the bill. “Stupid is as stupid does”.
I like your calm and helpful replies, I endeavour to achieve such articulate replies to such matters!
jb
ou’re quite right – his in-law should foot the bill. “Stupid is as stupid does”.
I like your calm and helpful replies, I endeavour to achieve such articulate replies to such matters!
jb